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Author
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Topic: Any topic that doesn't fit anywhere else!
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KDS Participant
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posted August 04, 2006 08:34 AM
Hi there, I am currently developing my dissertation regarding the role, responsibilities and effective oversight of audit committees. I had sent a draft to my tutor and I received back some comments regarding my literature review. Specifically, the tutor would like me to adress some issues, beyond best practices, such as the intellectual dimensions of the audit committees i.e what decisions do the make?,advantages/disadvantages of those decisions compare to other forms of decisions? are those decisions safer?, do they actually hinder company operations?, etc. Can you please comment on this and provide me with some advice? Are there any references for those issues?Best regards, KDS IP: Logged |
John and Miriam Carver Administrator
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posted July 01, 2006 01:34 PM
jonh901271,We cannot draw you a table of organization here, but we can easily describe one. At the top is the ownership (be it shareholders or others), next the board, then the CEO, then anyone to whom the CEO delegates (the latter drawn as the CEO wishes). Owners, board, and CEO are on a single, uninterrupted line of authority. The chair and other officers do not appear on that line (see below). However, attached to any position on that line can be any other person or group desired by the position to which it is attached. No position on the line (owners - board - CEO) can create such attachments to another position, only to itself. Therefore, the board cannot create functions attached to the CEO. The CEO cannot create functions attached to the board. For example, attached to the board can be any position the board chooses that does not cause 'double delegation,' that is, overlap with each other or with the CEO. This would include board officers and committees. Each is a creature of the board (yes, including the chair), reports to the board, and can be terminated by the board. Each exists to help the board with its job, never to help the CEO. None of them, of course, relieves the board of its accountability. This same pattern can be true of an ownership as well, but this is a far less frequent phenomenon. We've never seen it done by owners except in large associations (e.g., membership committees to nominate board candidates) and in credit unions (e.g., the "supervisory committee"). The CEO regularly does it, for his/her creation of "attachments" constitutes the familiar management organization chart. [This message has been edited by John and Miriam Carver (edited July 01, 2006).] IP: Logged |
jonh901271 Participant
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posted June 28, 2006 03:33 PM
I'm looking for a generic organization chart to help understand the hierarchy of the board, officers, management and staff in policy governance. Does anyone have one that can be shared?IP: Logged |
John and Miriam Carver Administrator
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posted January 19, 2006 02:41 PM
Luke322,Nepotism and cronyism, as well as a number of irresponsible board behaviors (such as a single board member assuming control) occur in part due to boards’ failure to install a high integrity operating system. Traditional and generally accepted governance methods do not necessarily lead to nepotism and cronyism, but are extremely vulnerable to these and other misbehaviors. It has been said that in managerial and political settings, the value of good system design is that the better features of human beings are amplified and the regrettable features are diminished or eliminated. Policy Governance was designed not only to enable boards to do their job responsibly, but also to help them avoid misconduct.
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Luke322 Participant
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posted January 18, 2006 09:32 AM
Hello Everyone,I am working on a project reagrding coprporate governance and looking for some terminology and measurements for instances of nepotism and "cronyism". For example, when a board member puts a family member on a board of directors or a ceo stacks a board with friesnds, that sort of thing. Any help would be greatly appreciated. IP: Logged |
John and Miriam Carver Administrator
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posted July 02, 2005 09:03 PM
Joe, We do not personally know of a mutual savings and loan using Policy Governance, though our not knowing means little. (The model is widespread enough in a number of countries that no one knows its exact spread.) There are to our personal knowledge a number of credit unions using or professing to use Policy Governance, as well as some pension funds. Use of the model does not depend on the type of organization, however, so much as the conceptual flexibility (open to learning and using new ideas) of board members.
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Joe Participant
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posted June 28, 2005 10:33 AM
I am on the board of a small mutual savings & loan ($150mil) and we are interested in the Carver model. We have done some research and reading but are unable to find other U.S. mutual savings banks that have adopted this governance model. Does anyone know of any institutions I could speak with?IP: Logged |
John and Miriam Carver Administrator
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posted May 18, 2005 06:19 PM
Catrina,It is the CGO’s (chair’s) job to see to it the board’s process is as good as the board has said it wants it to be. That is quite a job. If the chair can express his/her own views without failing at that job, we see no reason for him/her not to voice an opinion. When people talk about how powerful the chair is, we wonder what that says about the rest of the board members. Are they really that easily intimidated? Their job is to express their views and enter into honest debate, then vote their consciences. If they cannot do that, it is missing the point to blame it on the chair’s expressing a personal view. If the board thinks it needs financial advice, then it should get advice, using its best judgment as to source and cost. There is nothing at all wrong either with hiring outside or with using one of your members. Obviously, as with any decision, opinions will differ about the choice made. We aren’t sure why members (even over zealous ones) should not express their views on subjects the board is dealing with. After all, the board represents those (and other) members. What they don’t have a right to do is disrupt the board’s work or otherwise interfere with it. If the board allows disruption, then the board is being unfair to all the other members it represents. If the problem is that some board members had rather rely on someone else’s opinion than to carefully develop their own, then the board needs to have a serious discussion about the obligation of all board members to use the judgment they were elected to use. Oh, Catrina, Policy Governance is what some people call the Carver model; they are the same thing.
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Catrina Participant
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posted May 18, 2005 05:26 PM
I have recently become a general manager of a food cooperative, we use policy governance based on the Carver Model. It seems to me that our board does a really good job with this. Recently several of us attended a board training class a couple of points were brought up that are in contradiction to what we do and I'd like to request a second opinion.1. The Chair or meeting facilitator should not be an adversary for any position as this wields too much power. So I take this to mean that the Chair should not participate in discussions if they feel strongly for or against. 2. It’s a bad idea for the board to hire a financial advisor to suggest how they should make financial decisions. This has come about because our board doesn’t feel as though they always have the education necessary to make decisions; and we have a very dedicated member who does specialize in finances. This person was previously on the board and was not re-elected during our last election. Which brings me to the 3rd question… 3. The board may at some point need to ask over zealous members to respect the boards work and not offer input on subjects discussed at board meetings. Relying on a strong member doesn’t allow them to develop and strengthen. Any comments would be appreciated. Catrina IP: Logged |
Buskens Participant
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posted May 06, 2005 07:20 AM
Thanks for this pre-consult. I am happy that you will address this challenge in the next edition of your books. Will meet again in 2006. I look forward to any enhancement of the process.IP: Logged |
John and Miriam Carver Administrator
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posted May 05, 2005 06:04 PM
Buskens,“Reinventing Your Board” is a step-by-step guide to developing the policies necessary for the Policy Governance model to work. Rather than theory and commentary, it covers implementation specifics. However, you might want to wait for the second edition of this book to come out in early 2006; we are making the new edition much more helpful. (By the way, the third edition of Boards That Make a Difference comes out about the same time and will be considerably changed.) We suggest four methods to help your board maintain its Policy Governance discipline. (1) The board’s intentions, guidelines, and commitments about how it will govern (including conduct of meetings) must be decided by the board and ‘captured’ in the Governance Process policy section. (2) The board will not have decided every possible thing about its own governance and conduct of meetings, so it empowers the Chief Governance Officer (the chair) to make further decisions using any reasonable interpretation of the Governance Process policies (and Board-Management Delegation policies as well) that he/she chooses. The board, in that way, is telling the CGO to keep the board true to its policies, that is, to chair in such a way that Policy Governance discipline is maintained. (3) The board on a very regular basis goes over each of the Governance Process policies, discussing how well it is sticking to what the policies say. We recommend a few minutes in this kind of self-evaluation every meeting. (4) For a board that really is serious about maintaining not only its current discipline, but its capability to deal with big problems in the future, the board should do regular “what if?” exercises. The book “The Board Member’s Playbook” gives concrete instructions in how to do this. You are absolutely right about board development being necessary in this process. Governance is a primitive skill at this point in history, so doing it well requires board members to learn methods and discipline they are not accustomed to. Just because each board member is competent, experienced, and motivated does not mean the board will be excellent. Governance is a crucial group responsibility that deserves as much design as any important job. It does not come naturally any more than does brain surgery, racecar driving, or golf.
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Buskens Participant
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posted May 05, 2005 04:02 PM
I have read "Boards that makes a difference" "Corporate boards that create value" and "On board leadership". What can I find in "Reinventing your board" that is not in the above mentioned books with regard to board development policies?We are specifically interested in how to maintain the PG-governance during each subsequent meeting. Because the fall back in traditional governance is always there. Then what kind of process or policy is there for introducing PG to new board members. As I said in a previous message, we don't want a board development workshop every board meeting. Or maybe we should? I think that board development is essential in this process. And how does the board maintain the momentum once it has written its policies? IP: Logged |
John and Miriam Carver Administrator
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posted December 08, 2004 02:40 PM
mgrayson,We are certain something akin to that scenario has occurred many times before. We have frequently encountered the scrambled muddle you describe years on when everyone is ready to throw up their hands in surrender. We can’t be much help to you here because there are simply too many flaws in your plan to be dealt with. Your organization is in desperate need of competent consulting. We are confident that persons earning a certificate in information technology would never design their own product in so unnecessarily complicated a way. Back to the drawing board is the only sensible route to take. Governance arrangements should be kept as simple as can get the job done. For whatever reasons, human beings have great difficulty with the social science of governance. Making the task even more impossibly complicated and role-confused is asking for trouble. That is what your organization is about to do.
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mgrayson Participant
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posted December 06, 2004 11:13 AM
NEW BUSINESS We have recently formed a company who's goal is provide certification in an area of information-technology (IT). Through online training and examination, those who successfully complete the program will be denoted with the certification mark, CERTIFIED TECHNOLOGIST (for example purposes, not the actual trademark)THE MODEL The business operations heavily follow the company, Certified Financial Board of Planners, Inc (CFP Board) a non-profit corp who owns and issues the certification trademark, CERTIFIED FINANCIAL PLANNER(TM). BOARDS & COMMITEES We see that the CFP Board follows the Carver Policy Governance(R) to define its Mission, End Statement, etc. Within the Board, is the Board of Governers, which has the CEO and other "high" positions, and subsidiary boards which entail members who are volunteers. OUR INTENTED PLAN Our business is a for-profit LLC who has a "corporate board", i.e President, vice president. We want to create an additioanl "Board" that is seperate from the corporate board who's responsibilities include: -- CODE OF ETHICS: Review and further development. -- PRACTICING STANDARDS: ensure practical and ethical standards of practice -- TRAINING CONTENT: review and further development of education content. QUESTION: Can such a seperate Board/Advisory Council/ Committee be formed? 1) We envision senior members of the board to be reprentatives from various IT companies, who's employers have a valued interest in their products and services being "mentioned" in the training as examples of applied technologies. Obtaining such a seat on the Senior Board, would require payment by the employer. 2) We want the bylaws of this additional board to state that any changes to the training content or Code of Ethics, for example, must have approval by the President of the company. Simply we want to ensure "control" over the decisions by this additional board. WHY THIS BOARD: - Ensures our training and certification program has been reviewed and "blessed" by industry professionals. - Provides values input to the program and ensures it remains current in today's IT practices. Its a mouthful, but has this scenario occured before? Thanks, MG IP: Logged |
John Carver Administrator
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posted October 28, 2003 07:29 PM
Marshall,First, let me point out that the size of your membership is not an Ends issue. The organization does not exist to have a larger membership, thought it might (a) exist to achieve results more easily achieved with a larger membership or (b) jeopardize future ability to produce if the membership fails to grow. In either event, membership size is never an Ends issue. It is clearly a means issue. Further, educational programs are not Ends. Programs, services and curricula are never Ends; they are always means. The Ends concept is not to be applied to everything the board wants the organization to do. It is the designation of results in some target population’s lives, designation of who that population is, and designation of the cost or priority of those results. I am not sure what in the Policy Governance literature might have led to this misconstruction. The Policy Governance model will not work if misunderstood on something this important. So the problem is not with an Ends policy that is “too prescriptive” or too short term. If the board wishes to hold the CEO accountable for membership size, that can be included in an appropriate Executive Limitations policy and can be as ambitious (as to time) as the board thinks is doable. The wording might be “It is unacceptable for the membership to grow at less than x% during each calendar year” or something like that.
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